Well I had my consult with CCRM last night. I was really tired though so I didn't as as many questions as I should have. They are the top clinic in the US though. (I have no clue how they rate these clinics. Cornell is #2 and their success rates is about 30% lower then CCRM's) I have talked to a few of my FF friends who have gone there. The first thing CCRM does is have you go down there for 1 full day of testing. Literally ALL day. Apparently their equipment is top notch. Some of the testing includes:
Checking the blood flow to the uterus (they have a special machine for that)
Checking the size of your ovaries & your antral counts
HSG etc, etc.
No wonder they are the top clinic in the US. They check for every thing regardless of your age! It's GREAT! Now if only I could convince my husband to let me go there. He thinks it's ridiculous to fly out there. Yes to people who have not gone through what I have it may sound ridiculous. Their success rates are about 25-30% higher then any clinic here in new england though. Jon's problem is 'what if we go there and we don't end up pregnant?' Well if CCRM can't get me pregnant then I throw in the towel! I would rather not waste my time here with the clinic my husband wants me to go to but oh well. I agreed that I'd give this guy a chance. 1 chance and that is it. If this cycle fails I'm going to go to CCRM for my 5th (and LAST) IVF. I talked to Dr. Schoolcraft last night and he is under the impression that I have poor egg quality and I'm a poor responder. There for I need a better and more aggressive approach
of course I'm still hoping that by some miracle we will get pregnant in the mean time but I don't see if happening. "sooner then you think." the words from a recent blessing rings in my ears. "yeah right" is all I can say. I don't even think I'll believe it when I finally see two pink lines.
On another note I posted a question about repronex on the SIRM forums. They are a very good clinic (not as good as CCRM but still very highly rated on the FF forums) Here is what I posted:
"IVF #1 antagonist protocol 150 iu gonal f & ganerellix when first follie was 14mm
8 follies, 7 eggs, 1 bad quality, 6 ICSI'd, 3 fertilized 2 made it to day 3 transfer. 1 "perfect" highest grade 8 cell and 1 "ok" 5 cell embryo's transfered
IVF #2. long lupron. 225 gonal f. 10 units till AF then 5 units lupron. 3 follies, 3 eggs all ICSI'd 1 fertilized, poor quality-stopped dividing (was 10 cells by day 2 and 11 cells by day 3, still 11 cells on day 4)
IVF #3 antagonist 225 gonal f. ganerellix when follie was 14mm. 9 follicles, only 3 eggs retrieved. 3 fertilized with ICSI. 2 made it to day 2. both 5 cells and an "ok grade" (2 on a scale of 3-1)
The Re that did those IVF's thought it might be egg quality. I am switching Re's. Had a hystersocopy and all was normal. Doing CCT next cycle to check FSH (was 7.7 FSH and 44.4 e2 in march on CD3)
Ths is a long post but is there any chance that repronex will help with egg quality? I have no idea why only 3 were retrieved. I know I didn't ovulate because they got the fluid...just no egg.
If I do repronex should I get my LH/testosterone checked on day 3 to make sure I don't produce to much on my own?
Here is the response one of their RE's gave me:
"Repronex might be helpful at the end of stimulation. However, we think that adding it at the beginning of stim may make the egg quality worse. We also do not like the way they are using Ganarelix. By starting when a follicle is 14mm, they are letting your eggs be exposed to your own male hormones at the beginning of the cycle. many women like you are actually overly sensitive to male hormone. This means a small amount can still cause a lot of effect. For this reason measuring the male hormone levels won't help. I don't recommend a CCCT either. You have already shown by your previous response that you need a more aggressive approach.
Bad egg quality is the main cause of IVF failure, as well as early miscarriage. It is important to remember though, that egg quality in a given cycle is determined until you actually ovulate that egg. So even if you have done poorly in the past, you may do better in a subsequent cycle, especially if we get the stimulation right.
We have developed a specialized approach to treating women like you. We call it agonist antagonist conversion, with estrogen priming. If you contact me directly I would be happy to review this with you in more detail."
then he left his email so I could email him for further information. He does have a valid point and it makes me question Dr. Hill's (my new RE) approach. I talk to Dr. Hill again on Friday so we'll see. I do think that I need a protocol specifically for egg quality but I also need someone that will be aggressive. I'm going to email the RE from SIRM to ask him further questions. Like this "is there any way to slow down the growth of my follicles? It seems as though upping my dosage would make me stim longer rather then get more eggs.
13 comments:
So, how do you know that CCRM is the top in the country - are there stats somewhere that compare them to other clinics? That is so cool that you may go there!
Also, is CCRM the same as SIRM (where you posted that question)?
I would totally make the trip to another clinic, if I felt it would make a difference in my treatment...I'm glad you're being so proactive - it's so important with all this IF stuff.
I can certainly see why you'd be tempted to fly to Colorado. In fact, if these FET's don't work for me in the next few tries I might fly out there too!
SART stats show unexplained cases that result in pregnancy are between 60-72% per transfer!! That's 20-30% higher than anybody else. And it's not because they're transfering more embryos. They have a very low twin rate and do many single transfers. I don't know what they are doing but I am impressed.
I think you are really smart to be doing the research you are doing. I also think for your next cycle it is probably very reasonable to be with Dr.Hill. He sounds like a real upgrade from your last RE. You can always go to Colorado later if you need to. It's nice to be reminded that we still have many options available to us.
Tell me what the sirm doc ends up saying about your follicle question. That is interesting. Also, what Dr.Hill says about that.
Personally, I think you shouldn't waste your time going to someone w/ just 'ok' numbers (SART) because the bottom line is that you want to get pg, right? With a live birth, right? They you should go to the best place that can help you get there. Be it CCRM, Cornell, etc. When we're talking about the money, CCRM is a LOT. But as I told my DH, why not spend a little bit more to only have to go through it once, versus save the $$ and do more IVFs that don't work?
We used frequent flyer miles for the airfare, and are staying w/ friends. CCRM does have deals with local hotels for discounted rates ($35-60 a night). Comparing CCRM and Cornell, it has got to be cheaper to stay in Denver than Manhattan...
Personally, I think you shouldn't waste your time going to someone w/ just 'ok' numbers (SART) because the bottom line is that you want to get pg, right? With a live birth, right? They you should go to the best place that can help you get there. Be it CCRM, Cornell, etc. When we're talking about the money, CCRM is a LOT. But as I told my DH, why not spend a little bit more to only have to go through it once, versus save the $$ and do more IVFs that don't work?
We used frequent flyer miles for the airfare, and are staying w/ friends. CCRM does have deals with local hotels for discounted rates ($35-60 a night). Comparing CCRM and Cornell, it has got to be cheaper to stay in Denver than Manhattan...
I am seeking treatment right now through CCRM. They are wonderful! My husband and I only have the financial resources to do IVF one time so we wanted to give it our best shot even it it means spending a little more.
One sobering anecdote: We (DH & I) went to CCRM for a donor cycle--an 85% chance of success--and did not get pg. They said the 23 YO donor's oocyctes were very soft, and did not make it to the blast stage. $36,000. No baby. All they said was, "Gee, sorry." It blows.
Your blog keeps getting better and better! Your older articles are not as good as newer ones you have a lot more creativity and originality now keep it up!
Your blog keeps getting better and better! Your older articles are not as good as newer ones you have a lot more creativity and originality now keep it up!
First of all i would like to wish u best of luck and success. I would encourage anyone to go to CCRM, esp Dr Schoolcraft. I am from the West Indies. I flew to UK for IVF treatments five times, Barbados four times and on my tenth IFV cycle I decided to try the best, CCRM. Our healthy twin boys just turned one in January. I still cant believe how lucky we are to have them. It was a very long and difficult road for us, i would always wish that one day we would become one of those success stories and now wow! I thank God everyday for what he has blessed us with. (fell pregnant at 38yrs) Anyway, good luck again and definitely try CCRM. P.S. we are going to try again soon.
I would wish everyone a lot of strength, faith, and hope in this long stressful journey of trying to have a baby. I am 31 and my husband is 35, and our local fertility clinic (South Jersey Fertility Clinic) could not really find anything wrong with us, we did 2 unsuccessful IUIs and 1 IVF. Now we are out of money, but hopefully in a year we could try IVF again, and I know we will try it at the best clinic-CCRM. If they will not be able to help us, probably no one else can...
I did 5 IVF cycles in my hometown before deciding to go to CCCRM/ Dr. Schoolcraft. I also have poor egg quality and am a poor responder but with a completely different medication protocol than I have had in the past, we now have 5 great quality embryos frozen. We are going to do one more cycle and have genetic testing done on all of our frozen embryos. All I can say is that I wish I had gone to CCRM from the very beginning. They are the best for so many reasons. The testing they do is intense, the lab is incredible and the list goes on. I wouldn't give up hope just yet! If CCRM can't get you pregnant, then it may be time to consider other options such as an egg donor, adoption, etc. I hope this helps. Good luck!
I have heard that CCRM's SART stats are so much higher than everyone elses not because they are better but because they choose to report their rates differently. That they will usually do multiple egg retrievals to try and get a large number of 5 day blasts before they will do a transfer so it's like for every 3 cycles they only report 1. I was told to divide the percentage by 3 and that would be their real success rate percentage.
That being said I have gone through 3 failed IVF cycles with another FS, and I am going to CCRM to get a 2nd opinion.
CCRM is not so good as your read online. Yeah, they report their stats different than other clinics. I went there for my 3rd ivf and i had the worst response ever. Lower number of egg retrieved, less than 50% mature and just 3 fertilized. Schoolcraft fried my eggs with a high meds protocol. And all of this was 30000$
And he will tell you ...if the ivf wont work, we'll just have to try again. He talks with us as we are all millionaires as him. Very disappointed with CCRM.
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